On war and peace: a frank interview with Aleksandr Lukashenko

The President of Belarus promised this interview to Ukrainian journalist Diana Panchenko two years ago during a Big Conversation with the President, and he has kept his word. Much has changed during this time. A criminal investigation has been opened and sanctions have been introduced against Diana in her homeland. The interview became a big conversation about many other important things: the Head of State frankly answered questions for about two hours. We offer readers some vivid quotes from Aleksandr Lukashenko.

On the start of hostilities in Ukraine

The conversation began with the gratitude of the journalist to the President, who agreed to a conversation in the ‘no forbidden questions, no forbidden topics’ format.
Diana Panchenko drew attention to the opinion that has been repeatedly expressed: if it were not for the Special Military Operation, then Ukraine would have attacked first. But, according to her, many Ukrainians do not believe this.
Aleksandr Lukashenko talked in detail with the journalist about the events that were taking place then. First of all, he clarified that in January and February 2022, Belarus and Russia conducted routine planned exercises, “The exercises were large-scale. We have seen the situation on the border, what is going on in the west from Poland, Lithuania and Latvia. Remember the migrant crisis, to which we had practically nothing to do. The West called migrants to itself — they went there. Including through our territory. They walked in droves through the Ukrainian territory, but it was not given as much importance as the situation on the border of Belarus and Poland. We understood that they were starting to draw us in, to entangle us, to provoke us. We saw our main danger there.”
After the exercises ended, the Head of State continued, Russian troops and equipment began to withdraw from the territory of Belarus, “And on February 23rd or 24th, part of these troops, this is not the whole group, began to cross the border of Ukraine and Russia. And for you, it was unexpected, and for the whole world, although many said that the war would begin, but few believed. They began to cross this border. Why? Ask the President of Ukraine a question... You can’t reproach me for anything. There was not a single Belarusian solder there.”
The Belarusian leader recalled that he had already talked about four Ukrainian sub-divisions that were armed with Tochka-U missile systems and deployed along the border, “Long before February 24th. Our intelligence were tracking them. Once they came close, removed the tarpaulin — shelters from the missiles, deployed them in a combat position and turned them towards us. The Russians destroyed them in the first place.” 

On previous events

Aleksandr Lukashenko drew attention to an important point, “We are accused of contributing to the start of the war here. No, the warfare was already underway. You started it. The Ukrainians started this warfare against Belarus. Economic warfare first of all. You have declared a blockade on us in the southern direction. You closed the sky to our planes even before the Europeans did. You did not let our goods through. Furthermore, you arrested thousands of wagons with mineral fertilisers that we loaded here in the port of Odessa. Then you captured heavy trucks, 73 or 74 people, killed several people, and I had to conduct a special operation to free them. We took these people away, the Ukrainians didn’t even notice it.”
Belarusian leader draws attention, “We acted very carefully. We did not commit any hostile acts against you, either economic, or political, or diplomatic. We behave very respectfully. Why did Putin begin to withdraw troops to the Far East through Kiev? You ask Zelensky this question. He knows better. But there are reasons to accuse me of Putin going to Vladivostok through Kiev... Well, you can ask Putin.”

On plans to ‘take Kiev in three days’

Diana Panchenko recalled the interview of Aleksandr
Lukashenko to Russian journalist Vladimir Solovyov, which took place on February 4th, 2022. In it, the Belarusian leader said that in the event of a war between Russia and Ukraine, ‘everything will last 3–4 days, there will be no one to fight there’. Hence the question: was there the same plan to ‘take Kiev in three days’?
The Head of State responded that an estimate of three to four days was figurative, but it was definitely the matter of several days, “If the Russians had occupied Kiev, the war would have ended by now.”
“There is a very important point here: everyone in Ukraine is sure that Zelensky defended Kiev and that the Ukrainian army repelled the invasion, so the Russians withdrew,” the journalist explained.
The President shared his position on this matter, “Listen, it is a fairy tale and nothing else. But all of it was probably cooked up by mass media and Zelensky himself in order to demonstrate his heroism.”
“How is it really?” Diana Panchenko asked.
Aleksandr Lukashenko explained, “I had a conversation with Putin in connection with this. I said: ‘War is war, but in order for the war to end, of course, it is necessary to take the capital’. Putin replied to me: ‘You know, it can be done right away, instantaneously but a huge number of people will die’. Guns, tanks are hiding behind kindergartens and hospitals — how, he says, to fight with them? ‘We are conducting a targeted operation. We are on the outskirts of Kiev. We can’t strike like them, indiscriminately.’ That is, he was worried that he would have to fight in such a way that there would be nothing left in the place of the schools.”
The Head of State added that the Ukrainian army continues to use civilian facilities in which there are people, especially children. Aleksandr Lukashenko noted, “No Zelensky countered anything there. Putin withdrew troops from Kiev. How did he, Zelensky, protect? Did he defeat the Russian army there? No. Therefore, in vain he ascribes to himself this feat, which did not exist. 

On Zelensky in the cellar and Ukrainian leaders

Diana Panchenko did not hide her surprise, “You just said a sensational thing. I know the mood in Ukraine well, this is what Zelensky’s main propaganda is now based on: that he, firstly, is not Yanukovych, he did not run away, and secondly, he repelled the Russian attack.”
Aleksandr Lukashenko was rightly indignant, “Yes, your Zelensky was sitting in the cellar at that time! He did not repel anyone or anything. And the military saw how it would end.”
The journalist asked the opinion of the Head of the Belarusian state: if Poroshenko, and not Zelensky, were the President of Ukraine, would a war start?
Aleksandr Lukashenko noted that he often criticises Zelensky for inexperience, expressiveness, and character. The Belarusian leader is convinced that the previous occupation of the Ukrainian leader played a role. But he drew attention to the fact that troubles in Ukraine began since the time of Leonid Kuchma, when there was no single and definite course in the country.

On those who do not need peace

Diana Panchenko clarified which of the parties can negotiate today? And why are they for Zelensky, the West and Russia? Here is the President’s opinion, “The longer the war goes on there, it’s better for the US: war is expensive, and by doing so they want to weaken Russia. And not just to weaken, but to kneel. However, do the Ukrainians, Zelensky actually need it?”
“Ukraine — no, but Zelensky?” the journalist asked.
“You are right to emphasise. Ukraine is not Zelensky, and Zelensky is not Ukraine. Zelensky is a ‘hero’ in a T-shirt, he travels around the world. Whose story are you the hero of? Whose hero is he? He is their hero [of Western politicians], not a hero of Ukrainian people,” Aleksandr Lukashenko emphasised.
The Head of State added that he was watching public opinion in Ukraine, “A lot of people are starting to assess Zelensky in the right way. Hence this back-and-forth on his part. He cannot make up his mind whether to call the election. Or, using martial law, to postpone it. In other words, the situation is very unclear. I will tell you, if the election was held in the near future, one of the military would win... The people in Ukraine are starting to sober up. The hawks in the West, read — in the USA, need to keep the war going. It does not bother them that the Slavic peoples are fighting with each other, and killing each other. It is beneficial for them. Thus, having weakened Russia, they will get closer to China from this side. Zelensky is playing along. But in the end Ukraine — a flourishing, beautiful country blessed with natural resources — will cease to exist.”

On European disillusionment

The journalist recalled that earlier Aleksandr Lukashenko said that peace talks on Ukraine are possible this autumn. Noting that the absolute majority of the political forecasts of the Belarusian leader came true, Diana also clarified the opinion of the Head of State regarding this forecast. And she heard in response, “Based on all my contacts lately, I must say that the Germans, the French, others (except the British, of course — those are tough under America) don’t need this war anymore. This is why there is no unity of Europeans and Zelensky about the continuation of this war. Once Americans want it and give this signal to Zelensky, he will start peace talks. If there are no deliveries of weapons via Rzeszow and other border crossings, then there will be no war.”

Based on materials of sb.by and belta.by
Photos by belta